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Monday, December 31, 2012

Signing my own death petition...


Before I start this post, I just want to preface it by saying that this is not in any way a reflection of the international JYJ fandom or an attack against any of my JYJ readers. My JYJ readers have been nothing but understanding with me and they've been some of the sweetest people I've had the chance of chatting with on Twitter.

However, I feel that this is something that NEEDS to be addressed better now than later because it's been bothering me for some time now and I'm not going to sit on it any longer, especially not after finding out that an admin of another JYJ website has been spreading crap about me without bothering to address me first.

At the risk of losing a good chunk of my readers, I'm going to go ahead and just write out what I should have said a long time ago but was too wary to because I was afraid of the backlash. I mentioned this topic briefly in this article and it was met with a considerable amount of backlash, which is understood, but the issue has gotten way out of control and I no longer feel comfortable parading around JYJ articles as if they're always positive dumps because they're not.

Put simply, JYJ fans are like an organized gang on Nate. While I'm sure you can tell by some positive dump articles that fans are posting, JYJ fans have a systematic approach to it where they'll send in swarms of fans en masse to each JYJ related article and MAKE SURE that each best reply is carefully constructed by a fan and voted up, leaving no room for netizens to get in their real comments.

Any comment by a netizen that isn't praise is automatically voted down and taken off the best reply feature.

I know that some of you wouldn't believe me so I took screencaps of it happening LIVE on Yoochun's article about winning at the SBS Drama Awards.

I think you'll see why I don't feel comfortable parading around JYJ articles as positive dumps anymore. Yeah, the best replies are positive, but are they really? Judge for yourself. (Btw, the J in Korean is pronounced the same as 'crime', so netizens have taken to calling JYJ fans 'crime Y crime'.)


The first best reply on this article stated: [+167, -119] Wow, the comments here are worlds different from the other articles. Fans are truly just closing their eyes and plugging their ears and living in their own world...

The other two best replies were similar comments, which had already been voted down by JYJ fans and replaced with fan comments (like I said, they're very systematic).

The comments to the best reply say, and I'm including EVERYTHING:

- "If you have any respect, please lend us your support from protecting this best reply from the disrespectful, no mannered fangirl sasaeng crime Y crime fangirls!!!"
- "We have to protect this best reply..."
- "Everyone, please protect this best reply!! Vote it up! Every non-fan needs to know!"
- "This best reply will be voted down soon..."
- "It seems it's too late... this best reply will be taken down soon"
- "I got 17 downvotes over a negative comment I left about Park Yoochun"
- "Nate isn't the only place where crime Y crime fans have taken over. They're all coming from Daum Starzone's JYJ forum. Look at this same article over there, it's nothing but praise for him from the fans sucking his d*ck."
- "Fu*king fangirls, look at how fast they come together. Use this on things that actually matter."
- "Look at all of the fangirl replies that are getting ready to take over this best reply. It's pathetic how Nate has fallen so easily to them... Nate needs to change the commenting system so that these groups can't come in and change best replies to whatever they want."

You can see what the real sentiment on JYJ and their fans is by that.

This normally isn't a problem because it's normal for fandoms to want to comment on their favorite artist's articles, but with JYJ fans, they're like an organized gang. They vote up EVERY SINGLE JYJ related article no matter what, to the point where some nights, the entire top 30 is just flooded with JYJ articles with the same fans voting up their own positive comments. You can imagine why I stopped doing drama posts on 'I Miss You'.

Yoochun and Jaejoong are in a lot of NB positive dumps, but the reality is, outside of the best replies are just comments from netizens calling them out for sh*t like any other idol in scandalous activities like asthma and the army and the abuse of sasaeng fans.

Eventually, that best reply was voted down and fell off the best reply list, promptly being replaced by the two best replies below (including the comments to that best reply):


1. [+137, -84] Park Yoochun congratulations!!! Rooftop Prince was seriously the best~ Congrats~~

- "We eventually lost"
- "Wow, won't this f*ck ever be embarrassed in front of real actors? I'd be embarrassed even winning the award"
- "These people need to learn that this is embarrassing"
- "I'm afraid of crime Y crime fans now"
- "I feel bad for your parents for giving birth to you as a daughter...."
- "Wow, I'm really scared of these fans now, this is like a horror story ㅠㅠ"
- "We were eventually taken over ㅋㅋㅋ"
- "Wow, this is scary ㅋㅋㅋ"
- "The orc crime Y crime fans' screaming was the best~ Congratulations on being known as the representatives of no manner~~"
- "The best replies have been switched by the fangirls... Quite amazing."


2. [+99, -57] Rooftop Prince Park Yoochun-ssi, congratulations on your win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

- "The stupid fangirls have managed to change all of the best replies.."
- "Miss Sasaeng, do your parents know that you're doing things like this?
- "Stupid fangirl, go reflect"
- "Can we take down this best reply?"
- "Stupid crime Y crime fangirls make me puke..."
- "Ugh, I saw the other replies this person wrote and she's basically a sasaeng crime fan. Total trash."

-

After a while, JYJ fans changed tactics by what netizens call now as 'normal person cosplay' where they'll act like they're not a fan at all but some random netizen that came across the article and fell in love with Yoochun immediately cause he's so awesome and his acting brought them to tears!!!!!

Yeah, that act didn't last long because Nate allows users to see comment histories and all of these supposed 'normal person comments' were accounts that only commented positively on JYJ news. I'm just saying - THAT'S HOW FAR THEY'RE WILLING TO GO WITH THIS CHARADE.

I'd call out any other fandom if they did this on Nate but really, it's just the JYJ fans.

-
Another recent example:

Article: Park Yoochun sweeps rookie and excellence in all three broadcast channels, achievement earned in 3 years of his acting career

Source:
TV Daily via Nate

Original best replies:

1. [+788, -620] This is the reality of our drama industry. They set up an entire award, the popularity award, just for fangirls to vote to their hearts content not on the quality of acting but on their love for the start. Of course, Park Yoochun did better than other idols but he's not even a speck on the map compared to other nominees like Lee Sung Min, Yoon Je Moon, Um Ki Joon. I bet the fangirls are asking why we're questioning an award given by the broadcast channel but imagine how far you've all gone for us to say this. He is not winning this award for his acting. And please, fangirls, cut down your screaming. Your oppa must've been embarrassed because of you./

2. [+367, -311] An actor that improves by the day?? ㅋㅋㅋ As freaking if. He needs to improve his acting more before he can even say the a in actor. He won over Lee Sung Min, Yoon Je Moon, and Um Ki Joon over acting like that? Aigo~~ There's nothing that can't be achieved without the power of fangirls. And all the screaming fangirls... This is an awards ceremony, not your oppa's concert.

3. [+298, -260] Chunshik, I noticed you said your award speech just fine without one cough?

-

The new best replies:

1. [+593, -422] I really had fun watching Rooftop Prince. I'm having fun watching I Miss You now. Congrats!

2. [+519, -352] Every single scene in Rooftop Prince like when he ate the omurice... the 4 beagles.. the tearful rooftop marriage... It was all fun, and definitely a drama I won't be able to forget. Shin Yoon Sub director, please make us another hit!

3. [+420, -247] Park Yoochun-ssi, congratulations on his four crowns. I hope he continues to become a great actor. I had fun watching Rooftop Prince.

-

The comments to the new best replies... you can imagine. Some netizens have even gone as far as to link the exact communities where JYJ fans were spreading out article links and asking each other to go in and take down the best replies.

-

I have no problem if they keep to their own articles but they go around to every single TVXQ article that even TVXQ fans don't bother to vote up and post hateful sh*t, making it sound as if the public is sick of TVXQ and their careers are over - but really, from what I've read, regular netizens couldn't care less. TVXQ has been relatively scandal free aside from the JYJ lawsuit and that earns big points with them. JYJ on the other hand... I'm sure you know better than I do. That's why I haven't bothered posting up any TVXQ articles even if I do see them because I wasn't sure how to approach it.

I probably lost a lot of readers now but I'm done with tip toeing around the issue. Like I said, my JYJ readers have always been reasonable with me and this is in no way a reflection of their international fandom. It's just what I've observed from Nate specifically.

Did I basically just sign my own death petition? haha.

-

Edited to add: As said in a reply to a commenter below, I am willing to take in any guest posts from readers that want to offer another perspective on this (anything within the fandom that I have missed or would explain more than what I had to say). E-mail them to me at netizenbuzz[@]gmail.com.

-

Another edit to add: After e-mailing back and forth with a few JYJ fans who stepped up to discuss the matter further with me, I've learned a lot of eye opening things which only confirmed my beliefs that Korean JYJ fans are going about this the wrong way. Casual netizens don't know how severe Yoochun's asthma is and generally just believe it's not enough to evade service for. One fan emailed me links to several YouTube videos to show that it indeed is severe, to the point where he collapses on stage because of it.

Instead of leaving these nonsensical positive comments, Korean fans should instead leave comments explaining and clarifying these false lies and accusations because it would open a lot more eyes and minds than just "Yoochun oppa is the best".

But alas, we are not them nor are they us so I can only watch the fire blaze in Nate. 

741 comments:

  1. Love Jessica Jung SuyeonDecember 31, 2012 at 5:13 PM

    JYJ fans remind me of SNSD antis they put so much work into what they do XD.

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  2. Wo~w, that is insane! Total manipulation of media. "Shielding" your biases does nothing but make a person look like he/she is butthurt and delusional. To seriously go to that extent is obsessive. K-JYJ fans are really scary. No wonder the saesang fans from that fandom get the worst reputation among saesang sans. .__.


    Thank you for sharing this by the way! You shouldn't be threatened or bashed for revealing the truth.

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  3. I still fail to see why that one admin wants to spread such lies/rumors about, especially given the amount of positive dumps that have included JYJ before you said this. I know some do take their anger out on you when netizens say something international fans don't like,unaware you just translate the comments. But still, it's not like you've ever attacked JYJ or any artist for that matter.


    Even if JYJ fans stop coming, I'm sure many, including myself, will still support you :D

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  4. Thanks for this post. If you lose potential readers due to this post, then good riddance?! At least that's how I see it.


    And Netizenbuzz, even though I appreciate your hard work on translating things, I hope this opens the eyes of International fans who takes the top comments on Nate WAY too seriously. They do not reflect public opinion at all.

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  5. I just want to say as a jyj stan that most ppl know this shit and the admin that started this bullshit isn't well liked at all. Most are cool i swear we aren't all like her.


    Im sorry ;~;

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  6. As a TVXQ fan, thank you so much for posting this. I knew something was up.

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  7. So JYJ fans aren't netizens by your estimation? Do they live in an alternate virtual reality? We can pick and choose who is a "real" netizen and who isn't? If the consensus is bad, their "systematic" approach wouldn't matter, bad comments would still be voted more and their fans wouldn't be able to win over them.

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  8. glad to be an international JYJ fan <3.

    ah, but this is wrong for them to do that. & why are people spreading false accusations on you, I've always read your JYJ stuff and non what so ever are negative. supporting you ~~~ no death petition signing here lol

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  9. woah this was really interesting 0.0

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  10. As a JYJ fan, I thank you. I guessed this was up, but not entirely sure.

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  11. "especially not after finding out that an admin of another JYJ website
    has been spreading crap about me without bothering to address me first."


    did I miss something..? why are jyj websites mad at you?

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  12. The admin of such site doesn't believe in you because of what you've said about JYJ and JYJ fans personally. You fail to leave out information that obviously makes an entire fanbase look bad.

    On another note, I don't like the site or the admin you're referring to but I can recognize BS and you sir, are full of it.

    You're calling out an entire fanbase when other fans do the exact same thing. You're being completely unfair as well. People can vote the comments up or down. Netizens can agree or not agree. So if the comments are voted up, they can be voted down just as much.


    And believe me, fans of other groups do go into other articles. Why else do you think C-JeS or fans themselves have chosen to take legal action against some netizens?

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  13. Thank you for writing this, most of us -TVXQ fans- knew something was up, and you just confirmed it, thank you a lot, and i don't think you'll lose your readers, if some JYJ stans can't deal with it, and want to leave then it's their loss. ;)

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  14. He's basically saying JYJ fans are intensely more extreme than other fan groups, even if it is the same everywhere else. Like BigBang can't come even close to controlling articles, even if they try and use mob tactics.

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  15. Just curious, who is the admin/fansite? Utterly irresponsible and as they say, those who live in glass houses shouldn't cast the first stone.

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  16. I agree, but those fans are NEVER to the extent of JYJ fans. I'll call it out when I see it, and for now, they're just fans commenting on their favorite artist's articles, not an organized gang looking to take down or put up specific responses. I think that's the difference here: fans looking for their favorite artists' articles and posting nice comments and a group of fans gathered for the main purpose of scoping out articles of their favorite artists and posting and voting en masse...

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  17. what i dont get is. what separates fans and netizen? r fans not humans too. can they not like their bias or if u r ur not part of everyone else. just dont get the logic netizen. fans r not roborts who like jyj because jyj programmed them to like them, so their opinions matters. its them that buy their albums, concert support them. so its their target audience, what is next. that the 11% veiwers in yoochun drama r not netizen but fans too. and the ones who think his acting is good r fans only. and the directors who hire him r not regular people but fans too.

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  18. laughing right now.

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  19. I love my JYJ readers, don't apologize!

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  20. bravo. gave me one more reason to why i hate jyj and their fans. come at me bro LOL

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  21. I don't think it's necessarily a fan vs netizen thing. It's an issue of manipulating the general opinion. We're all netizens, whether we're a fan or not. There's a difference between posting as a fan/netizen and saying you love your artist and posting as a fan/netizen with 100 other fan/netizens saying you love your artist for the sole purpose of voting it up and making sure it's a best reply.

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  22. stanning jyj is a real hard thing to do...

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  23. You're not calling it out though. Its been happening. Instead you've been talking then deleting your own personal thoughts.

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  24. Thank you for exposing the truth Netizen Buzz! I'll always count on you :)

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  25. Its like when pocodot (facebook thingy) hijacked the entire comments section of Youtube. Even if people didn't hate it before, they did now cause it hijacked comments they actually wanted to see.

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  26. lbr other fandoms do the same, maybe not the same extent but they do. To me it was pretty obvious not all the comments would be nice, especially after several scandals. I'm a jyj fan but even I recognize the admin of that site is crazy. I know several fans stopped taking jyj3 seriously because of the comments and that admin. I'm sorry she said shit about you ):

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  27. admin mia from jyj3.
    no self respecting jyj ifan touches that website with a footlong pole tbh shit is wack and messed there.

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  28. I am calling it out because I've never mentioned this on my blog before and it's not something my readers would know unless they themselves read through Nate, which they don't. My personal thoughts (I'm assuming you mean my tweet responses) have been in line with everything I said in this post.



    I really, really don't care about either TVXQ or JYJ if that's what you're trying to imply. I love Junsu's singing as much as I love Yunho's charisma and my best friend is a diehard Yoochun stan who is going through every episode of I Miss You as we speak. I have no agenda. This is what it is, take it or leave it.

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  29. just one, and that admin is disliked by several jyj fans

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  30. "lbr other fandoms do the same, maybe not the same extent but they do. "

    I think we can all agree on that statement really. Every article about a certain idol or celeb is going to have that mixture of negative and positive comments and votes really. I'm sure fans who visit such articles do vote it up because it is their favorite group, and then vote down all the negative comments.

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  31. Agreed. And please don't apologize for anything!

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  32. I'm not implying that you're a TVXQ fan. I'm saying that in general, you're not being neutral or professional. Where's your commentary about JYJ's anti's? Where's the note about how awful some other fans have been in JYJ articles? JYJ's agency recently released a warning to such comments and behavior. Legal action has been taken to prove that it is not all just in the heads of JYJ fans. If you don't understand the history of the fanbase, then why comment on it? Because believe me, there is an entire "gang" dedicated to hating on JYJ related articles. You failed to mention that as well. That hate group recently invaded the JYJ Gall, and yet you say that other fans stay in their fanbases. Its simply not true.

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  33. I still feel like I should apologize because I swear not all of us are crazy and delusional ):

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  34. that maybe true but now u just created a flood of people who would not recognize any positive thing about jyj as positive.thats the difference nate consist of what 300-400 people max voting articles. and 100 -. u just based an internet forum of fans and trolls into the opinion of a whole nation. i was a fan of tvxq for 5 years and i found out the yoochun smoked from trolls in nate from ur website referring yoochun as yoochunshik. how can me a fan who buys their CD not know but a "netizen" who hates yoochun know of it? i bet if u walk the streets of seoul and garbed a young girl and asked her if he smoked and does public duty wouldnt know too. what i am getting at is that jyj has fans flooding their articles and trolls saying dont flood the articles cause ur their fans then these fans got angry and got together and then pretended that they were regular people who happen to like jyj.

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  35. It's because they organize, the average netizen doesn't vote on every article and every comments every time. It's like how youtube comments were and often are taken over by bots voting up specific articles. They basically create artificial news and artificial comments that obscure real stories... And I like JYJ...

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  36. "crime Y crime".... i know what are you talking about about that admin, i dislike her, but i think this "special articule" just confirm her arguments, and i don´t know if it was neccesary... i thinks circumstances has made JYJ fans paranoic, and JYJ knows it... :/

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  37. /sigh
    At the end of the day netizen will always keep on bringing up stuff/mistakes from the past and fans will always keep on defending their idols...in some way I can understand why JYJ fans deem its necessary to be aggressive but I really dont like the way some of them are now..to me they've lost perspective of what matters..

    p/s: sorry u have to be caught up in this crazy fandom..n thank you for sharing this..

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  38. Thank you for writing this, i've been suspecting something like this happening, but never dared speaking up :/

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  39. I KNEW something was wrong when JYJ always get so many positive comments and 2VXQ bad comments.

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  40. haha I knew this was happening.. still amazed seeing it in action though..
    a lot of Korean JYJ fans are fucking scary~

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  41. I'm a proud JYJ fan but I'm aware of how some JYJ fans can be overzealous, just like many fans in any other fandoms except in larger quantity which can overwhelm and suffocate those who want some air space not devoted to the single-minded pursuit of maintaining oppa's reputation. Doesn't matter how much you try to control netizen opinion, people will think what they want to think and you trying to change their minds will only push them to become angrier and more frustrated.


    If you have confidence in your idol's charms, in his abilities, then let them win others over. Don't try to do it for them. And if you want your idol to graduate from being an idol to a real actor or serious musician, then your fandom shouldn't act like an idol fandom. Some fans' actions are preventing people from taking JYJ seriously.


    Final note, I will still visit Netizenbuzz because I like reading what's being said in the country that my idol is from. But, I think all readers should also think for themselves and come to their own conclusions. Don't piggyback on eloquent voices, popular opinion, influential fans and etc. Observe and form your own conclusions and remember that no one is an absolute and unbiased source of information.

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  42. It's like pocodot.. Remember that, the supposed new social media sight. Every youtube comment had it spammed up, and used fake "third person testimonials" for it... And the community hated it, and the sight after a while, because they invaded the real comments.

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  43. I think people are getting too butthurt about this and they're reading too into it. The facts are there you just wanted to show that some JYJ articles aren't all what they're meant out to be so I don't see the harm tbh and for you to have to defend yourself is stupid. People need to stop debating about something like this.

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  44. You do realize though that every single idol and idol group has it's fair share of antis and trolls that go those articles and vote down the article and probably every positive comment in there. So it's not just JYJ that it's happening to.

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  45. It just shows how insecure they are...

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  46. I don't think it's fair to compare netizens to anyone walking around on the streets, so I'm going to dismiss that statement. Yoochunshik is popular among netizens - almost every Yoochun related article has it somewhere in the comments.



    The issue that remains is, as you pointed out, how I'm going to approach posting JYJ articles from here on out. I'm open to taking ANY and all suggestions you and other readers have regarding that, because it's an issue I need to figure out as I move forward with this blog.

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  47. Those awful trolls and antis are everywhere. If anything, I think Big Bang, T-ara, and IU have it worse than JYJ. I think your view is limited to this JYJ issue while I see a bit more because I'm forced to click and read comments on every artist's article for this blog.



    I'm not a JYJ fan so obviously I cannot know or find out that there is such a specific anti JYJ group raiding comments. I see things from the perspective of an outsider, and that's how I'd rather keep it.

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  48. Yeah, as a Korean who has lived in Korea, I think international fans take netizen comments too seriously. Most adults in Korea don't spend their time commenting on celebrity news articles, especially ones about idols, and so the "top comments" aren't an accurate reflection of the general public opinion a lot of the time.

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  49. If you would like to write a guest post on this blog explaining anything that I might have missed, please please feel free to email me and I will gladly post it.

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  50. Wow, I have to admit that this was very interesting... and disappointing at the same time. It makes me wonder just what other 'public opinion' has been manipulated in the world of K-entertainment... =\

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  51. i think her is talking about JYJ or yoochun haters... i mean, you just go to someones articule because you care in a bad or good way, for example i don´t read 2ne1 or infinite articules because i don´t really care, thats what normal netizens do, don´t give a fuck about what doesn´t interest you

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  52. I really am not a JYJ fan or anything... As much as I'm enjoying IMY n enjoyed Dr. Jin I dont know about their other activities.

    About their fan protecting their Bias, I, too my greater extent think that they are not wrong where as regarding NB pointing this case now is totally understandable.. I have never hated this site or NB for creating this site where T-ara(my bias) or anyother idols who has been in scandal being bashed randomly... I just appear in T-ara's article and some others' of my interest. NB you are just doing fine. Those who will be leaving or those who would were never a true reader of your site to begin with. Dont let yourself down n Happy New year and safe!!!

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  53. being a kpop stan is serious business

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  54. You're making assumptions again. But thank you, you've just proven me correct. You called out a huge fanbase without knowing the history behind it or why Korean JYJ fans feel the need to protect JYJ in the articles. Thereby, you just did an entire post based on an unfair perspective.



    Congratulations on creating even more buzz for the New Year.

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  55. If they could manipulate the top replies on JYJ articles to be positive, they could easily make the top replies on other articles more critical.

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  56. like many people said, the netizens who are saying good things about JYJ are JYJ fans.
    FInally, here comes the reality.

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  57. jyj fans will come here to vote down all the negative comments lol

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  58. I think you just proved my point as well with the statement "Korean JYJ fans feel the need to protect JYJ"

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  59. I think we also need to analyze the number of positive and negative votes for JYJ articles. I've noticed consistent number of votes for top 3 comments in JYJ articles: 600ish vote ups for articles relating to all three members, 300ish vote ups for Yoochun articles, 250-300 vote ups for Jaejoong and Junsu articles. In all of these cases, the number of negative votes have also been consistent. It means that just as there are the same number of devoted fans who keep voting up JYJ articles, there is also a devoted group of people who consistently vote down their articles. It's a vicious cycle because the actions of one side forces and feeds the actions of the other.

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  60. ¬¬ that happens in every articule of every artist...

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  61. I never denied they did. I said other fans do the same thing. You just failed to give both sides of the story when it comes to JYJ / JYJ fans.

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  62. Like I said, I'm inviting you to write a guest post explaining more and offering another perspective on this post if you feel it's necessary. I am not blocking your view or opinion. I want to hear it. Please email me.

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  63. hahaha i already got 3 downvotes just for saying i'm a TVXQ fan

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  64. Total manipulation of media and public opinion.

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  65. netizenbuzz you're DAEBAK !!

    Now all makes sense D: JYJ fans are really obsessed and scary.

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  66. what were you thinking? you can't start a comment in a jyj post by saying "I'm a TVXQ fan" lol

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  67. But JYJ stans acted arrogant about it and said because "JYJ ARE SO GOOD " and they bashed other artists

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  68. The comment system is never is good way to gauge public opinion because those who actually do comment on articles are mainly keyboard warriors and fanatic fangirls/boys like any cyber community in any country. They present extreme views, either high positivity or high negativity.

    & JYJ fans are highly protective over them because of what happened over the years after the lawsuit, much more than other fandoms, which I believe is why they find a need to portray them in a positive light because the media doesn't offer them enough opportunities to gain public exposure. They present the highly positive views. On the other hand, keyboard warriors, known for their superior sense of self righteousness perceive that the positivity fans have portrayed to be a 'false' imagery of public opinion so they put down JYJ as much as they can. They present the highly negative views.

    Together, they create the situation we see on the comments section. The comments section is a flawed way to gauge public opinion.

    Who is the worst party here though? Without a doubt it is the keyboard warriors in my opinion. I dislike the self-righteous keyboard warriors more than I dislike the fanatic fangirls. They seem to find themselves superior beings in the hierachy of cyber community (if there ever was one), and disapprove, put down, and hate on anything that they don't like. To put it simply, they're a group of highly strung people who can't find joy in their lives and resort to putting down others on the internet to gain self gratification over the attention and response they get from the other fans.

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  69. jyj fans care about jyj news. They aren't bots but humans that have something they care about. They seek their news and they vote good comments up. You cannot separate jyj fans from netizens, and netizens from their opinions. That cannot be done. They are netizens with a common view. What's that common view: they like jyj and say as much. You cannot dismiss their opinions, as artificial, just because you don't like what they say. You can count what they do as artificial the moment they block other users from making bad comments or block them from thumbing down bad comments. They don't have the capacity to override Nate's voting system. That means they are free to express their like of jyj as much as others are free to express their dislike. And NB has shown you that others are expressing their dislike all the same.

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  70. how about post genuine positive comments wither its from fan or regular person but got lots of upvotes because u think it is true and might be representation of general view. and another thing i wanted to ask. so if a netizen says yoochunshik or for example jaejoong is horrible actor and got lots of upvotes. would u classify that as general view or people who hate jyj? now that u posted this could u give us a general idea on what is really a netizen view and what is a troll view.

    ReplyDelete
  71. every fandom is like that lol yes
    I saw A LOT of fandoms doing the same in youtube with positive feedback lol

    ReplyDelete
  72. Wah ~ they are so crazy (o_o) .. i really respect you 4 telling us the truth ^^I take my hat off to u (4 doing this) u r really brave (~_^)~

    ReplyDelete
  73. maybe are worst, but JYJ are too organized....

    ReplyDelete
  74. She did give both sides of the story. She showed the negative comments regarding jyj and their fans in the screencaps.
    And why does 'history' justify it? You seem to be missing the point here. Other fandoms obviously spam comments in articles about their bias but not even remotely on the same level as jyj. I'm sure the other fandoms that you haven't mentioned have 'history' too but they also don't spam positive comments for the sole purpose of media play.

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  75. Are you talking about JYJ haters now? remember how you used to diss and bash TVXQ here?

    ReplyDelete
  76. JYJ fans wouldn't be so aggressive if their idols could promote on TV. They do deperate things to support them, really anything, to make sure they get some coverage. So, who's in the wrong?

    ReplyDelete
  77. because netizen admin is "saying" that those negative comments are from regular netizen, but they could be haters...

    ReplyDelete
  78. i really don't get why some fans feel the need to go to this extend to prove your oppas are loved? why does it matter what others think about your idols? your opinion should be more important no? i'm a vip but i love this blog so much even tough half of the time netizens are trashing bigbang and i must admit creative names to hate on them are gold ; g drugin, sexri, japanee flag .; all this crack me up than anything else. will it stop me from listening to them no , liking them no.
    please keep sharing those kind of stuff if you have thing on kvip bring it on!

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  79. I don't think that's the problem though. The main problem seems to be that they come in herds spamming tvxq related articles with negative comments that in no way represent public opinion. I don't think people would mind jyj fans as much if they JUST stayed in their own articles.

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  80. It's funny to see those who talk about JYJ's haters and specifically Yoochun's and how their fans are simply trying to protect them are the same one i spotted in TVXQ's articles laughing and enjoying the hate comments they were receiving...I know people are biased, but this is just laughable to me..

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  81. Don't try to change the subject here please

    ReplyDelete
  82. But what about this part?

    "I have no problem if they keep to their own articles but they go around
    to every single TVXQ article that even TVXQ fans don't bother to vote up
    and post hateful sh*t, making it sound as if the public is sick of TVXQ
    and their careers are over - but really, from what I've read, regular
    netizens couldn't care less."


    Supporting JYJ is understandable, but attacking TVXQ is pretty shitty.

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  83. They are hijacking the system because they are artificially expressed at high levels. There are always flaws with a nate type system, but this is them intentionally using the system. The only difference between this and other fangroups is their level of success, so both are problematic and they actually destroys the natural news based ranking system. And I won't disagree, that there is a lot of dislike for their actions here. The difference is we are not organizing our actions to collectively target our efforts, and we are naturally expressing which we like and dislike.

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  84. My friends who visited this website and saw the comments from JYJ stans felt horrible for days and she didn't come out from her house. She has other problmes and she thought that spazzing about TVXQ will make her feel better but thanks to the haters here who looked down at TVXQ to make JYJ look better, she felt worse

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  85. i think this is true.....articules are the only way to get "closer" to JYJ... :/

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  86. You post this specious shit and you want me to think you are objective. Get real. We aren't stupid.

    ReplyDelete
  87. I would say I agree if it was only comments on JYJ articles. Instead they are forcing the articles to the top of the ranks and such. JYJ has been through too much, but pissing off average netizens is not a good fix.

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  88. I'm a JYJ fan, but even I was suspicious. This is why it's never a good thing to take netizen comments like public opinion, it's like someone looking at the comments on ONTD or allkpop and assuming that is how the world will feel about certain issues, I would be so embarrassed if that happened. Most of the public doesn't care about the things netizens feel strongly about, so I don't think there is really anyway to gauge how Korea feels about JYJ, or any other idol/actor etc, unless you live in Korea tbh.

    However I don't fault JYJ fans for protecting them, the fandom is very fragile in the fact they are fighting against saesang and vicious acage fans, as well as the usual antis.

    I'm sorry to the admnin of this site, you have always just translated comments and there should be no reason to hate on you, I apologise, no-one should go through that.

    ReplyDelete
  89. Ddidn't this look like comments posted from JYJ stans?


    Article: Why did TVXQ shed tears? "I have a lot of things built up in my chest"

    Source: TV Daily via Nate

    1. [+353, -91] Honestly, TVXQ was the best when they were five

    2.
    [+184, -34] People need to shut up about all of the lawsuit comments
    because they were crying for a game, not because of whatever you guys
    are thinking ㅡㅡ

    3. [+273, -159] TVXQ's songs can't even get in at the top rankings anymore, how have they fallen to this point

    4.
    [+49, -43] If Jaejoong or Junsu had stayed instead of Changmin, I don't
    think there would have been such a big divide like now... The TVXQ that
    the public is most familiar with has a lot to do with the vocal talent
    Jaejoong and Junsu showed.. Anyway, I'm just saying that I feel bad that
    the group has to be split and act as nothing but puppets to adults
    (Sooman, Youngmin) greedy with money so I hope they get back together
    soon.

    5. [+46, -32] I saw the title and was surprised thinking
    something had happened ㅎㅎ Anyway, it's nice to see them try and get
    closer with the public by going on variety shows~ I'm really looking
    forward to God of Victory!! ^^

    6. [+40, -62] I really hate watching TV these days because I hate seeing their faces full of lies and hypocrisy....

    7. [+39, -21] Ah, I really want to see the show soon!

    8. [+36, -41] I don't feel bad for them at all -_-

    9. [+36, -35] Go to the army

    10. [+32, -43] TVXQ or whatever, I don't like them because they're too SM-like




    LOL try harder JYJ fans

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  90. uh... they are in the wrong. Nobody would care if they just up voted their own comments, but they go out of their way to shit on TVXQ when TVXQ fans stay out of their articles. Them not being on TV is no excuse.

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  91. Not really . At least they comment in their bias article, they don't harm anyone

    ReplyDelete
  92. really? An outsider perspective, wishes to keep it that way, but still writes these things?
    Sorry but this doesn't make sense to me. You failed to mention all the
    haters JYJ has. Are we supposed to sit back and not do anything? This would be why CJeS is taking legal actions against those spreading malicious rumors about JYJ members. I see no mention of JYJ anti's and netizens making malicious comments against them,
    spreading rumors, and being brutally hateful about JYJ's families and
    personal lives. Did you not know what happened recently? Anti's overtook a JYJ site. I see no mention of that here. JYJ fans are also netizzen's. They are citizen's and their comments & opinion's matter just the same. If not then when do they matter? In case you forgot JYJ is BLOCKED from appearing on TV so it is so important to be protective over them and to help them keep a positive image when they are treated unfairly. Oh yeah. I doubt Kfans are going to be happy with you when they find out about these lies. Oh. About the tvxq. That isn't the entire fandom and not everyone does what they should. You should know this well since you write about kpop stuff. Lastly, it's a fair playing field because TVXQ's fanbase can protect them as
    well? Yet they hardly get any comments even from their own fans.

    ReplyDelete
  93. Then how far are they willing to go before stopping or at least calming down? When someone gets seriously hurt? When the entire fandom crumbles? When JYJ ends?

    ReplyDelete
  94. It's kind of mind blowing. I understand you want to protect your biases and you want them to be seen in the best way possible but it's a waste of time. People's opinions won't magically change.

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  95. Don't act like an hypocrite please. i saw you in TVXQ articles making fun of them.

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  96. I'm a JYJ stan and I think if other non fans are so upset with the comment manipulation maybe they need to get more people to vote their comments up? I mean it's fair game in voting up/down, even if JYJ fans organized it. I don't know why you're getting attacked for mentioning it because I don't think it's a big deal but yeah just ignore it I guess? I will continue read this site for other idols stuff. This "issue" isn't a big deal to me.

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  97. An advice to your friend: stay away from the internet or stick to tvxq sites. That way she won't see nasty comments

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  98. I felt really genuinely horrible reading articles about them too, to the extent that I don't even read posts on them. I love TVXQ and they've never ever done anything to deserve hate, the way JYJ stans were gloating about it was just disgusting.

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  99. Protecting JYJ is something and dissing and bashing TVXQ is another thing. They seem more like insecure fans to me

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  100. this is the result of this article, blame jyj for any positive thing they get and also blame jyj for any negativity that tvxq gets. although i do agree some of the later comments seem like haters. just like u in allkpop

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  101. But they are bashing TVXQ which just made your excuse for them invalid. Sorry mare

    ReplyDelete
  102. She didn't "say" anything like that though. If you can find hundreds of comments in a jyj article that aren't from a jyj fan (check their comment history) and they say that they like yoochun's acting and the like then be my guest. But the fact of the matter is that the haters most likely aren't jyj antis if you checked their comment history. They are just annoyed by them/their fans.

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  103. Everyone gets those kinds of comments, bashing and etc. I think it's a given that everyone knows this although not to what extent.


    But that still doesn't make what this 'Gang' is doing, right.

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  104. yes yes every negative comment Homin gets must be from JYJ stan =))))

    ReplyDelete
  105. *sighs* when that 'admin' posted those things about you (which were not even that bad) I was one of the people who defended you. I can no longer defend you. And if you get hate.........then yeah as you said you signed your own death certificate =____=

    I find this situation is really sad and sketchy on your part.

    1) Every fandom has haters or lovers that are delusional as crap. This includes the hordes of SNSD fans in Korea or Won Bin fans. All negative comments about SNSD or Won Bin will most likely be voted down too into non-existence. Won Bin to me is like the Brad Pitt of America........but Brad Pitt still gets criticism in America but in Korea Won Bin is worshiped and has no criticism. For celebrities that is NOT possible......the very fact that one is popular gets one anti's irregardless of if they are hot or scandal free. =____= So please don't feed me or anyone else the bullshit that only JYJ fans do this.

    If you flip the coin.........haters do the same thing. In Bigbang or Block B aricles they vote down all positive comments. So again......I am calling your bullshit.

    2) JYJ are the most hated group by companies in Korea. Like seriously.....every achievement they have had as a group or individually has been followed by bad news or a scandal 'randomly' being revealed. For example, after their European tour they had an article released by dispatch showing pictures of an empty stadium....just because they were the first to take steps into that European country =___= If the fans had not been there for them after the lawsuit.....and still now, JYJ's career's would have been long over. Even if the fans are batshit. Like seriously there were systematic articles that lied about them released in Korea, Japan and China enmasse after the lawsuit by SM =____=

    3) PLEASE DON"T DO ANOTHER JYJ ARTICLE EVER AGAIN. FANS WILL NOT ASK YOU AGAIN EITHER. If you do do another JYJ article then it will just be to throw dirt on their fans faces. You basically just gave all other fandoms and people who saw JYJ fans and JYJ in a bad light, a green light to mock and deride all their efforts as fans. No fans like seeing the person they stan hated for no god damn reason =___= SO PLEASE KEEP JYJ AND THEIR INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS OFF YOUR SITE FROM NOW ON. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

    You still have many other artists to write about.

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  106. Honey hoeny please. I don't go to JYJ articles to bash them. I'm not that desperate lol

    ReplyDelete
  107. The problem is that they attack other artists especially TVXQ

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  108. thanks for the hate. we totally appreciate it

    ReplyDelete
  109. I meant trying to pomote a good image for JYJ is understandable, not once did I say it was ok to bash TVXQ fo the sake of the JYJ members.

    ReplyDelete
  110. Except other fans don't do the /exact/ same thing, and if they did the author would've picked up on it. If this stands out amongst other fan behaviour, it's gotta be bad.

    ReplyDelete
  111. tvxq2 fans are saints either lol
    NB ...let´s talk the truth
    k- tvxq2 stans make the same with JYJ in korean forums..even worse
    but this is not only accusing JYJ of being ambitious lol ,bad actors or bad singers like JYJ fans does with Homin lol xD
    k-homin stans really wrote dirty,low shit and rumours about JYJ without proves..I even cant repeat it..
    people really think cjes sued them only bcuz they said "JYJ are greedy" ? xD
    nope,homin stans said very low stuff about JYJ..
    I said it bcuz their fans trying to act like victims and saints here lol
    sure xD

    ReplyDelete
  112. lol its the same as SNSD or any other fan going to youtube video commenting a million times and refreshing the page to increase comments and view counts =_____= OR spamming polls or suju fans cheating in polls using bots. All fandoms are the same......so calling out one is unfair.

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  113. tell me about it.. lol

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  114. Why should she have to look up the history of negative jyj related comments when the sea of spammed positive comments are pretty much all anyone can see? Those comments by antis are admittedly terrible but the whole point of this site is to gather netizens (sometimes normal people) reactions to articles so if fans are spamming, how are you supposed to gauge public reaction (loosely)? Also, she never said anywhere in this article that all jyj fans bash tvxq. It was made pretty clear that not all of them do it but the vocal ones ruin things.

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  115. I 'm aware that some netizens TVXQ but that type of comments can only be posted by fans who are following their news and fans who look down at the duo and prefer the trio JYJ .which means JYJ fans.
    Don't you get it? and you may stop your bashing against TVXQ now because it is clear that 80% of the bad comments are coming from JYJ stans. Don't you even feel bad about it?


    look at the comments here too who are also coming from JYJ stans and they are bashing TVXQ in all the articles around here. Can you find an excuse for that too?

    ReplyDelete
  116. true, CJES sue the for good reasons....is just that JYJ are more "powerful" and organized

    ReplyDelete
  117. MIND BOGLLING. It reminds me of Organised crime. Really scary people.

    ReplyDelete
  118. OH WOW there whould be a BLODDY WAR HERE
    but let see what JYJ fandom will say, i like you NB but i wanna know from JYJ prespective too

    ReplyDelete
  119. There is a huge difference between shit talking about groups you don't like with other likeminded fans, and systematically shit talking in public articles to ensure non fans think that the group is generally hated by everybody when they are not.

    ReplyDelete
  120. Yes you are trying to turn around tables here to distract attention from what JYJ stans did. Just keep going. It's a proof that you have nothing to say lol

    ReplyDelete
  121. Being a saesang is serious bussiness. Its like one big mafia!

    ReplyDelete
  122. I'm not saying its any different except in one sense: They're more successful.

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  123. what a hypocrite. stop with the fanwars.

    ReplyDelete
  124. I love how JYJ STANS are trying to turn around tables here to distract attention from what JYJ stans
    did. Just keep going. It's a proof that you have nothing to say lo

    ReplyDelete
  125. Since you want a suggestion on how to do your JYJ posts, why don't you pick out the comments that seem to be the best representatives of the publics opinion? From the looks of it, you seem to regard yourself as someone able to distinguish stans from unbiased netizens(is there even such a thing?). Thanks for the heads up on the crazy admin, I go there sometimes only to read translations but I'll be more cautios from now on. And I'm not trying to bash you here, wanting to show the most general opinion is admirable, I hope you have an equally good eye at spotting bullshit on other idol articles as well.

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  126. since when did I even bother to talk about Homin ? I am just amused by your assumption that all the bad comments must be from JYJ fans and tbh we don't give a damn unless JYJ are involved which many of you Homin fans bring up so often.

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  127. So did you do that or not?. just answer it

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  128. "This normally isn't a problem because it's normal for fandoms to want to
    comment on their favorite artist's articles, but with JYJ fans, they're
    like an organized gang. They vote up EVERY SINGLE JYJ related article
    no matter what, to the point where some nights, the entire top 30 is
    just flooded with JYJ articles with the same fans voting up their own
    positive comments. You can imagine why I stopped doing drama posts on 'I
    Miss You'."

    -

    "I have no problem if they keep to their own articles but they go around
    to every single TVXQ article that even TVXQ fans don't bother to vote up
    and post hateful sh*t, making it sound as if the public is sick of TVXQ
    and their careers are over - but really, from what I've read, regular
    netizens couldn't care less. TVXQ has been relatively scandal free aside
    from the JYJ lawsuit and that earns big points with them. JYJ on the
    other hand... I'm sure you know better than I do. That's why I haven't
    bothered posting up any TVXQ articles even if I do see them because I
    wasn't sure how to approach it. "


    those parts are really creepy, honestly I think JYJ fans are way too obesessed.

    ReplyDelete
  129. I mentioned about this on this blog and JYJ stans just couldn't accept the truth. Thank you for writing this.

    ReplyDelete
  130. I don't really see a problem with what JYJ fans are doing, except for the fact that they mess with TVXQ articles. To think that many JYJ fans were once Cassies and they do that is treasonous imo. Just focus on JYJ instead of trying to bring TVXQ down.

    As for k-netizens, many of their comments are bitchy, whiny, smart-alecky, condescending, or just bs so I'm happy at least ONE fandom has found away to overcome them :P

    ReplyDelete
  131. They, just like antis, are very biased. That's the difference. What happens when someone coming to look at a jyj article to see the comments, sees nothing but positive comments? You may see nothing wrong with that, but people usually come on this site for a vague idea of public opinion on articles. Fans are not the general public.

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  132. JYJ has a really fucked up fandom....to the extend that there are what are called acages ore something like that, those are fans of just one member, but they talk shit about the other two...is scary...

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  133. I'm kind of proud of the JYJ fans for doing this, I mean really, what person wants to read negative comments about their favourite artist? At least they've taken it into their own hands. There's nothing wrong with this... EXCEPT for them bashing HoMin on every TVXQ article. That pisses me off, but the positive JYJ articles don't bug me. But NB, will you stop posting JYJ articles? I really want to hear about them, specially since we cant see them anywhere else.

    ReplyDelete
  134. Netizens don't really care about them. They have no scandals (except for the association with JYJ scandals, lol), so they're not going to attract much animosity.

    ReplyDelete
  135. aah but correct me so basically you say actually JYJ never got positive comment, it's just bcs their fans organize for making all best comment become a number one oh wow don't you think thats how tumb up/down work...hmmm

    ReplyDelete
  136. i wasn´t making fun of them....i was making fun of their fans, problaby i make fun of you... ahahaahaah

    ReplyDelete
  137. Yes we must be insecure because we mass comment so that our biases get positive comment on top. In this case, it is called supportive. It's not like we deleted other people's negative comments. The news' comment sections aren't that big of public opinion since they can be outvoted that easily.

    ReplyDelete
  138. It's because of netizen buzz system that only post the best vote ups comments and label it as positive dumps... If NB summed up the whole comments, not based on the votes up, it wouldn't be a positive dump anymore... (Just an opinion....)

    ReplyDelete
  139. you know that the admind of this site said that you were the one that start most of the fanwars?

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  140. There is a huge difference between said "homin is over" , "homin is not talented" LOL
    and "JYJ are drug addicts" , "the sister of _ _ _ is prostitute", the mon of _ _ _ is a whore who dated with a mafia boss " ,"yes, I saw them doing it but I dont have photos of course" lol

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  141. LMAO try harder JYJ stans. EPIC FAIL.I love how Big bang fans don't do anything lik that and still millions times relevant than JYJ LMAO

    ReplyDelete
  142. you're like obsessed with this article about JYJ. Get a life.

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  143. lol there are many 'stans' in JYJ who criticize their biases too =____= You are looking in the wrong places tbh

    ReplyDelete
  144. From insecure desperate JYJ stans

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  145. they should do that for articel who doubting why JJ and YC won award on MC, after all they are crazy fans right...please..

    ReplyDelete
  146. Well when it comes to k-netizens comments they are often bitchy, whiny, smart-alecky, condescending, or just bs. So I'm happy at least ONE fandom has found away to overcome them :P



    Anyway, I don't think this is much of a big deal. But thanks for the info!

    ReplyDelete
  147. "so calling out one is unfair." Uhm dear, there's a difference between calling a fandom out for their manipulation in making the impossible become possible ON ARTICLES. NB is all about netizens' comments on ARTICLES so I don't get your argument at all.

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  148. why are you still here.....this is about JYJ....tvxq fan.....XD ahaha

    ReplyDelete
  149. I think OP should've been focus more on revealing how these fans were awful in dbsk articles, because that's what really matters, and not their over-protective attitude toward jyj

    ReplyDelete
  150. sure in your own world they are -__- AKP must have run out of new articles today.

    ReplyDelete
  151. Sorry but i don't think posting this on the new year was a good idea !! cause with all the hard time jyj were having this will make it even worse !! as you may know JYJ don't get the media attention that they deserve, that's why the fans are trying to help them with this thing !!

    Hope you have a very happy new year ^^

    ReplyDelete
  152. ur doing exactly what ur accusing jyj stans of doing. were is the logic

    ReplyDelete
  153. don't you think that just the same with all the other idol fans lol "MY BIAS ARE SO GOOD THE YOU" lol

    ReplyDelete
  154. Are you telling me to get a life? say that to the JYJ stans who used to come to all TVXQ articles just to diss them? fuck off from my d*ck

    ReplyDelete
  155. My suggestion is please avoid posting JYJ or member news at all from now on. it will save everyone a headache......and tbh international fans don't really need to read 'favorable' reviews of them all the time in comments.........we will still have our own opinions.

    ReplyDelete
  156. Oh wow! K-JYJ fans are extreme (I-JYJ fans can be too of course).... Those fans are obsessive and insecure to be doing this.
    Anyway, thank you for your honesty Netizenbuzz! I always love reading your posts and opinions! :)

    ReplyDelete
  157. i would vote up any good comments about my bias everytime i see one!!! not only jyj/dbsk etc.this article is uncalled for. you are basically saying that its wrong to vote up good comments about my bias.With this logic, every single kpop fans are at fault!!! hahahahahahahhaha....

    ReplyDelete
  158. Not sure why you got many thumbs down

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  159. I saw that in twitter and facebook too

    ReplyDelete
  160. The problem is not just the tvxq situation though. The problem is that the whole point of having a rating/comment system is that it gives people the freedom to express their opinion. If someone wants to say a negative comment about someone, they can. But when fans are herding together with the sole purpose of stopping other people from reading and agreeing someone's sentiments, it becomes a problem.

    ReplyDelete
  161. that was a classy reply. thanks. .

    ReplyDelete
  162. Helping them by bashing other artists?

    ReplyDelete
  163. Wow. It seems all the apeshit cass went over to jyj's side lol but anyways it's really sad to see the once oh so great fandom become like this.
    Meh. Just wanted to say that i'll still hang around because i initially followed this blog for these controversial stuff ^^

    ReplyDelete
  164. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if JYJ fans came in every SMTOWN articles to vote down the positive comments since they hate SM so much rofl.

    ReplyDelete
  165. You don't own the article and this one is not about your bias JYJ. It's about JYJ stans not the 3 boys

    ReplyDelete
  166. as if sme,yg,jyp big companies never did this lol xD

    ReplyDelete
  167. JYJ stans since they were present in all TVXQ articles to diss them. I think it is obvious. We still have those articles and those comments.

    ReplyDelete
  168. Lol what about the comments talking about JYJ and dissing TVXQ here? do we need to go back and screencap all of it? You are pathetic denying what your mates did.

    ReplyDelete
  169. Why should she care for their backstory? The point is that jyj fans are stopping seemingly normal people from expressing their opinions that just so happen to be negative.

    ReplyDelete
  170. That's entertainment world for you. But..so what? Does that make the JYJ stans any better?

    ReplyDelete
  171. I was referring to "voting up best replies" ^^
    Happy new year :)

    ReplyDelete
  172. Proof or it didn't happen. Try harder girl

    ReplyDelete
  173. I don't remember if I was one....don't care much...........but my opinion still stands as a drama fan that Yunho's acting sucks from what I have seen previously. IF he miraculously improves I will shut up. Also.......lol if you are only talking about that one article then please go visit the Dramabeans article that talks about that drama casting and you will get similar views =___=

    Also...........most TVXQ articles have comments like "Gosh I wish the five would be together again etc." and lol..........JYJ fans don't want them ever to be back together O___O

    It was mostly YH who only got bad acting comments so this whole post on this blog is kind of over-dramatic.

    ReplyDelete
  174. I don't want to be mean , and I AM NOT HATING ON JYJ
    but their fans always use this to make i-kpop fans think that k-netizens hates TVXQ wich is apparently not
    So thank u for this

    ReplyDelete
  175. nah...is just my english is not that good becuase i learn by myself in a spanish speaking country...

    ReplyDelete
  176. You are wrong. They say they want them back as 5 because they want to say that TVXQ are not good with just 2 members. That's how they think

    ReplyDelete